Curse

MetalMan · Jan 16, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Hey,

I've never been good at heroes - for some reason i always find a hitch in one build that stops it being used effectively at all.

I'm playing warrior and i'm really enjoying it, but currently my heroes are, well... C**p to say the least. I currently run:

Kahmu as a AoB derv.
Vekk as a Half fire/Half channeling nuker
Ogden as a ZB

This is effective at mid-stage areas, but i know for a fact it can be improved MASSIVELY. I need tips on good builds that, mainly, focus on a physical team. If anyone can help me, thanks in advance.

PS: This isn't a thread to request builds, more i need advice on whats best to bring for a physical team, such as buffs etc.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

Kahmu as a AoB derv.

Yuck! Get rid of AoB now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

Vekk as a Half fire/Half channeling nuker
Ogden as a ZB

If it's "physical heavy", why do you have an Elementalist? In my opinion you should be using heroes which you can customise to augment your build, and the builds of physical damage dealing henchies. I actually like using Aidan in Eye of the North because he has Barrage and Volley so can hit many things at once. I always find 2 hench monks to be fine.

When I play warrior I use the following heroes:

General Morgahn:
[wiki]Spear of Redemption[/wiki][wiki]Anthem of Disruption[/wiki][skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Anthem of Envy[/skill][skill]Anthem of Fury[/skill][skill]"Stand Your Ground!"[/skill][skill]"Find Their Weakness!"[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]
Spear Mastery: 8 + 1
Leadership: 11 + 1
Command: 11 + 1 + 1

Kahmu:
[skill]Arcane Zeal[/skill][skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Vow of Piety[/skill][skill]Mystic Healing[/skill][skill]Watchful Intervention[/skill][skill]Faithful Intervention[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill]
Mysticism: 10 + 1 + 1
Blood Magic: 12
Wind Prayers 8 + 1

Razah:
[skill]Offering of Spirit[/skill][skill]Ancestors' Rage[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Life[/skill][skill]Mend Body and Soul[/skill][wiki]Withering Aura[/wiki][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
Razah doesn't need much investment in Withering Aura to make it work well.
Channeling Magic: 12 + 1 + 2
Restoration: 10 + 1
Death Magic: 8

Henchies I usually take are 2 Monks, 1 Warrior, 1 Ranger. You just cut through mobs like a knife through butter. You need to make sure you're not dealing Elemental damage to make sure Kahmu's build works. Kahmu makes a bit of mircoing to make sure he keeps his Interventions on. They're more to power Arcane Zeal and Mystic Healing rather than to keep him alive. Also, Give Kahmu a blood staff - not a scythe - he's a caster for the purposes of this. I think all the attributes I gave work...if not just jiggle them about until they do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

This isn't a thread to request builds

I read what you're saying, but it's better explained through builds.

Wakka · Jan 16, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

In a word: Paragon's

ZenRgy · Jan 16, 2008, 01:56 PM // 13:56

[skill]Barbs[/skill]

Also [skill]"Go for the eyes!"[/skill]

MetalMan · Jan 16, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

@ Celestial Beaver: I never thought of using a Paragon at all, and i've never seen that D/N build before, but looks good. Thanks

@ Wakka + ZenRgy - I'll try those out, i guess that GftE can be placed onto a para build. Should put out a lot of damage.

Thanks for the help so far.

Byron_Black · Jan 16, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

heros don't always make use of the energy gain with zb, something to watch out for

Cebe · Jan 16, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

@ Celestial Beaver: I never thought of using a Paragon at all, and i've never seen that D/N build before, but looks good. Thanks

We got Racthoh to thank for that Dervish build. <3

I edited my post to give a better idea of attributes amongst other things. One important thing is not to give Kahmu a Scythe with that build. His job is to stand at the back and pump out orders. I gave him a Blood Staff with +20% enchantments on it. Reason a Dervish is used is because Mysticism along with Arcane Zeal can be exploited for fantastic energy management.

I tried playing with another human to see how mad we could get it. We tried taking an MM with [wiki]Order of Undeath[/wiki] and [wiki]Symbiosis[/wiki], and one of the Hero Monks maintained [wiki]Strength of Honor[/wiki] on the two human warriors. Sheer madness. Although, Symbiosis has the potential to be a bit dodgy since people are constantly losing Necro order enchantments, though hilarity ensues when Kahmu's health hits 1,700! With that team build we did Tahnnakai Temple (Normal Mode) in 13 Minutes which wasn't bad at all. Less than 2 mins per room.

upier · Jan 16, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

I run:
1. Masters
The guy used to be curses - now he switched to blood for [skill]Order Of Pain[/skill] and [skill]Dark Fury[/skill].
A few points into curses for a normal length of [skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill].
Relative high SR .. well because SR is insane. And because of [skill]Signet Of Lost Souls[/skill].
The rest in protection for [skill]Divert Hexes[/skill], [skill]Mend Condition[/skill] (don't know why - but the guy isn't very happy to use Dismiss), [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] and [skill]Aegis[/skill]

2. General
High Spear with 2 Spear attacks. [skill]Spear Of Lightning[/skill] and [skill]Merciless Spear[/skill].
If I am running my Paragon - then [skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill] because I keep it up for the both of us - if he is the only para - he gets [skill]Frenzy[/skill].
General is pretty much my motivation Para. 2 to 3 chants. Stuff like [skill]Aria Of Zeal[/skill], [skill]Aria Of Restoration[/skill] and [skill]Ballad Of Restoration[/skill].
[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill].
[skill]Signet Of Return[/skill]
Why?
Because I can.

3. Goren
Damage dealing warrior with something in tactics for [skill]"Shields Up!"[/skill].
Plus [skill]Wild Blow[/skill].

Paragon (or Assassin), Warrior and 2 monk hench (or Ritu).
Insane damage and insane protection/healing.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2008, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

[skill]Defensive Anthem[/skill].

For a Physical-heavy team...why? Defensive Anthem ends when an attack skill is used.

upier · Jan 16, 2008, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

For a Physical-heavy team...why? Defensive Anthem ends when an attack skill is used.

The weakest links.
Necro and monks.

Tough guys keep the squishes alive so that they can keep us hex and conditions free so that we can do the damage.
One hand rubs the other.

Wakka · Jan 16, 2008, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The weakest links.
Necro and monks.

Tough guys keep the squishes alive so that they can keep us hex and conditions free so that we can do the damage.
One hand rubs the other.

I dont know, I half agree with this but at the same time half don't.

Part of me would take DA just because it is a great skill. The other half screams at me to sacrifice some attribs for Aegis.

Cebe · Jan 16, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

I dont know, I half agree with this but at the same time half don't.

Part of me would take DA just because it is a great skill. The other half screams at me to sacrifice some attribs for Aegis.

That was my first thought...is it really worth an elite slot to passively protect 3 squishies?

upier · Jan 16, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I most definitely see you point.
The reason why it doesn't seem like a problem is because I don't get the feeling like I am missing out on something. If there was something that would scream at me that I am wasting the slot because skill X is so superior - there would be no question about dumping DA. And that doesn't show. The team is still producing massive damage - while being insanely safe.
I've played around with AoFury, Infuriating Heat and Expel and while they weren't bad (far from it) - it just didn't scream that it was worth giving up the protection that DA offers.
Plus the way heroes use attack skills - DA can last quite a long time on some.

Arkantos · Jan 16, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I run these all the time:

Me:

One of the following two depending on if I want to blow up mobs to have a little extra healing power:

Again, depending on the area if it's hex heavy or condition heavy.

Stuff dies, I don't. I'd run Spear of Lightning over Swift Javelin but no +damage from Order of Pain makes me sad.

This build owns. Not sure how it works if you aren't playing paragon, but I don't see why it would fail.

Wakka · Jan 16, 2008, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Im not going to bother quoting that above post as it would kill the thread (even more than it already has).

But I disagree with the [skill=text]Vicious attack[/skill] As there is no GftE to trigger it? Maybe a mistake?

Arkantos · Jan 16, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wakka

Im not going to bother quoting that above post as it would kill the thread (even more than it already has).

But I disagree with the [skill=text]Vicious attack[/skill] As there is no GftE to trigger it? Maybe a mistake?

Well, the only other viable +damage spear attack would be spear of lightning, which wouldn't trigger OoP. So basically you're doing the same damage as spear of lightning, triggering OoP, and getting a chance for DW. Recharge doesn't really matter seeing as you/the heroes won't be spamming the attacks on recharge.

Teutonic Paladin · Jan 16, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Still does respectable damage and has a decent chance of deep wound.

If you're not going to run paragon you need to micro an anthem or add one to your own bar to maintain the refrains.

System_Crush · Jan 16, 2008, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Why are you guys suggesting a dervish healer? Why waste a team slot on sub par healing and [skill=text]Dark Fury[/skill]
Use a Splinter&Order Necro!
Using [skill=text]Order of the Vampire[/skill] and [skill=text]Splinter Weapon[/skill] they boost the teams damage, use [skill=text]Well of Blood[/skill] to heal stuff near the corpses(that should be your melee's if they are not surrounded by enemy corpses they are doing something wrong)
And spam [skill=text]Mark of Fury[/skill] to increase adrenaline gain, its much more efficient energy wise than [skill=text]Dark Fury[/skill] is.

Mr Emu · Jan 16, 2008, 07:18 PM // 19:18

splinter weapon+mark of pain=instakill on mobs of 3+
then add some para and some arage and some IV for extra steamrolling

Racthoh · Jan 16, 2008, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Why are you guys suggesting a dervish healer? Why waste a team slot on sub par healing and [skill=text]Dark Fury[/skill]
Use a Splinter&Order Necro!

The D/N can infinitely spam the skills away meaning in a prolonged combat you're constantly receiving your buffs. The extra healing is also essential in those cases to assist the monks if their pools start to drop. The N/Rt's energy source comes from Soul Reaping. If stuff is dying you can keep spamming your buffs. If stuff isn't dying you're no longer getting those buffs and will have an even harder time taking things down.

I've used both and it's simply a matter of whether or not extra healing or offense is more appropriate for the task at hand.

Quote:

And spam [skill=text]Mark of Fury[/skill] to increase adrenaline gain, its much more efficient energy wise than [skill=text]Dark Fury[/skill] is.

Mark of Fury has two problems. As a hex you will have to micro your hero everytime you want it cast on the right target otherwise there is no guarentee it is thrown on the target you want. Also compared to the D/N using Dark Fury it is less energy efficient. It works with Arcane Zeal to reduce the cost of your spells by 1 energy for 5 (6 seconds if using enchanting mod) and when it ends triggers Mysticism triggering Vow of Piety in the process as well. In some cases Dark Fury and Order of Pain become free casts on the D/N through the elite and primary.

On Defensive Anthem:
It's an Aegis that usually won't get interrupted and once is up can't be stripped off the allies that really need it. If you (the physical) suddenly takes the focus of a few enemies you can weigh the situation and determine if continued use your attack skills would be beneficial. In a H/H situation I'll always bring Defensive Anthem because I know Lina/Mhenlo are going to have the physical train on them.